Various notes I have taken from the internet
Steve Freides:
Kettlebell Swings are what I recommend to everybody who has back problems because they are just the right tonic. They load your back very briefly, and they're one of the few things that can strengthen connective tissue in your lumbar region. We all sit in chairs all day, we all overly round our backs and the tendons and ligaments get stretched out. And it's very difficult, even if you strengthen the muscles with the deadlift, to really strengthen that connective tissue.
Kettlebell Swings are the perfect medicine for this condition. Religiously, every day, even days when I know I'm going out to ride a bicycle for 100 miles, I will swing a light kettlebell for a set of ten reps on each arm first, because that, more than anything else I do, is what keeps me healthy. If I had to drop almost everything, I would probably deadlift, swing a kettlebell, and do nothing else. So that's my big thing: it helped me go from an invalid to a normal, functioning person.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqyIuFIdgRk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkVaQMi9wTQ
http://www.begin2dig.com/2008/08/refined-hardstyle-turkish-getup.html
Directions for a homemade medicine ball:
1. take an old, or cheap, basketball
2. cut a slit in it
3. stuff with sand
4. sew or glue the slit closed (optional), and then tape up with heavy duct tape
This gives you a perfectly functional 18-22 pound ball (9 or 10 kg) for under $4.
TGU - when lowering the bell, place your hand next to your hip, not behind you. If you put your hand behind, the KB will not remain overhead like it is supposed to.
The point of the face the wall squat is to get the hip hinge really working
Pavel
#2 Swing
#3 TGU & cleans
#4 Press and High pull
#5 Snatch
1H SW, Clean, High pull, Snatch
Ladders
Can the ladder method be used with kettlebell training? For instance 1 snatch with the right arm,1 snatch with the left arm,2 snatches with the right arm,2 snatches with the left arm and so on. I was thinking about doing ladders of 1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5.
Ladders work great for KB snatches. I find I can do more total reps without stopping doing them this way. You can also do them in multiples greater than one, such as 2,4,6,8,2,4... or 3,6,9,3,6,9...
I have been using ladders intermittently with cleans and snatches and can report that they a) allow you to complete more reps than you would otherwise, and b) turn an already tough KB session into a 'death march'. Happy training!
There is just something nasty about kettlebells - a lump of dead iron weight with an extra thick handle on it. My modest little set intimidates the heck out of everyone who looks at them: "Whoa! What are THOSE ?!?".I would laugh at a 40 lb dumbbell, but even the 16 kg KB requires respect or it will hurt you! The fellow who originally came up with them must have been a manic depressive with masochistic tendencies ;-).
Pavel talks about ladders in Enter the Kettlebell. The way he describes it there, you work with the same weight for all your sets, but alter the reps up the ladder. Say you start with a 16kg Kettlebell, you'd do:
3 ladders of (1,2,3)reps, written 3X(1,2,3)
In other words...
1st set: 1rep per arm
2nd: 2
3rd: 3
4th: 1
5th: 2
6th: 3
...and so on. When you can get of to 5X(1,2,3,4,5) then it's on to the next weight. ETK does such a better job of explaining it. It's a way to do a ton of volume without burning out. I think he does it this way because there's such a jump in weight between KB's. Can't just go up 5 pounds every week.
I've come to understand ladders as sets of sets; or that reps comprise sets, and sets comprise ladders. However in a ladder scheme, each set contains a different number of reps (1, 2, 3, 4, or 5)
Q: If I do not have a heavier kettlebell yet, which is better, to add more ladders or to add more rungs? ie. should I do 6x(1,2,3,4,5) or 5x(1,2,3,4,5,6) ?
Pavel Answer: Switch to 2-3-5 ladders and do up to 10 of them.
Another thought...If you go to a heavier bell...and you CANNOT press it at least 5 times...you could press it on the 1st and maybe 2nd rung of your ladders. Then do 3rd (or 4th and 5th) rungs with the lighter KB. That way you will be introducing a heavier KB into your presses...But remember to have plenty of steam left when going into each rung and ladder. ...Dennis
Q: I have watched the kettlebell challenge several times. I don't quite
understand about the reps and sets.I'm looking to build explosive power, strength, and muscular endurance without bulking up. Will doing more sets of the presses make me bigger, should i just do it like PTP-2 sets of 5 reps .And on the snatches and cleans, you say you can do 1-100 reps but don't go to muscle failure, won't doing 100 reps with any of the KBs fatigue your muscles?
A: Stick w/ low reps and long rest periods for bulkless strength. Remember to practice high tension, this will lead to enormous gains in strength w/ little to no bulk. Failure(as is usually defined)is momentary muscular failure where you can't perform any more reps. If you can do 100 reps and still have some in the bag then you didn't go to failure(and you are a badass). This is what you want. Keep some in the bag. It will fatigue you, very much so, just remember how failure is defined.
A: Just keep your reps and sets on the pressing drills low and vary the rest. For ballistics either way is fine; fives for slow drills. - Pavel
The point of high rep kettlebell work is conditioning and strength, whereas olympic lifts are pure strength
Do as many as you can with good form, if you can do 100 straight, it's time you got a bigger k-bell! They don't know why high rep ballistic moves like the snatch and the clean and jerk have such an across the board effect on fitness, with impact on strenght, strenght-endurance and speed strenght, they just do, the policy seems to be keep the reps high, do many sets if you can, above all, keep form tight and make sure you don't overload your tendons and ligaments with too many sessions per week. This is pretty much what previous posts on the subject seem to boil down to.
I read in the RKB Challenge Book that you should perform the 5 rep strength lifts before the high rep ballistic swings/lifts in the same workout.
The quads do not get much of a workout in the snatch but that is where jerks come in.
Your hamstrings and glutes will get all they can handle and more from snatches. If you feel that is not enough try a few overhead squats with 1 or 2 KBs and/or one legged squats with the KB in front of you.
I promised Pavel I'd post my KB workout results when he was in Denver last week, so I'm only a month late :). Anyway, here goes: in six weeks of training with KBs as my primary exercise, I lost 1.5 inches off my waist and stayed the same weight, so I lost fat and replaced it with muscle. My resting heart rate went from 60 to 52. It had been stuck at 60 for years regardless of whatever sort of cardio training I did.
My protocol was pretty simple: one day emphasizing snatches and/or clean & jerks, followed by a day emphasizing presses, 5-6 days a week. My best performance of the snatch was 25 with the 16KG bell or 13 with the 24KG, so there's a lot of room for improvement.
Thanks. The results exceeded my expectations. On his website, Clarence Bass has some interesting articles on cardio training - most notably, articles 10, 11, and 12, in which the effects of short but very intense bouts of cardio training are detailed. The results are almost too good to be believed, but they show that short, very intense bouts of interval training is extremely effective both in fat loss and cardio conditioning. High rep KB training fits this protocol very well.
I have not tested ny heart rate, but it is much higher than typical moderate intensity cardio training produces. I'll have to take my heart rate and how high it goes, but I have to stop my sets because of a general systemic failure, not because my muscles have failed. My heart rate gets so high I'm simply unable to continue the set and have to rest 1-2 minutes until it comes down low enough to try again.
After starting with Super Joints exercises, my core routine consists of Pavel's recommendations for kettlebell training—a few grinding movements followed by a few ballistic movements and some ab work to finish. I love the kettlebell Military Press—it's really helped me strengthen my midsection and keep my back healthy. So I always start with that, follow with Windmills, and then whatever other grinds I'm in the mood for: might be barbell deadlifts, might be kettlebell Front Squats or Pistols. After that I do whatever I like from the menu of Snatch, Jerk, Clean, always ending with One-Arm Swings.
I then do a very short ab session, usually 1-3 reps on each of two different exercises - Steve Freides
KB Technique & Sore Forearms "It's all technique"
One of the many subtle things that I noticed after watching the RKBC video was the position of Pavel's wrist at the end of a "clean". If you notice, his wrist has rotated 90 degrees at the finish of the movement from the start with the KB in the "hang position". (most of the time sore forearms come from only rotating the wrist 45 degrees and taking the KB full hit on the forearm) If you are cleaning with the right hand, then you would start with your knuckles facing forward, but at the end of the clean, your knuckles should be facing your right as if you had a hammer in your hand and were about to drive a nail with the hammer head over your shoulder and your elbow in tight to the body. Also, the KB does not really swing around your hand (this creates tremendous momentum and a painful blow to the forearm) rather, you drive your hand under the KB near the top of the movement circling under the KB. Watch Pavel over and over again. Even in the cleans the KB does not go straight over but slightly to the outside as you drive your hand under the KB rotating in the path of the KB sphere. Yesterday I did 100 reps per arm without any forearm soreness (I won't mention other body parts). Of course, always use the knee dip in the cleans and practice, practice, practice!
When you do kettlebell ballistics, there is a great tendency to get pulled underneath which is murder on the low back. You need to sit down and back with authority so that you are catching the load with your hamstrings and hips--powerful load bearing muscles.
You can do ladders by yourself or with a partner.A ladder sequence works like this 1,2,3,4,5,6...1,2,3,4,5,6.
Your doing one rep stop,then 2reps,3 and so on.Just do not go to failure and take a few seconds rest between reps. Once you reach the top of a ladder, start over climb it again for however long you remain fresh.When you do ladders with a partner you match each other for each rep until one person can do no more.Ladders are not pyramids though(1,2,3,3,2,1). Ladders can also be done with any grip you choose.Ladders can be done every other day.If you stick with ladders your numbers will go up.
Q: I understand that you should vary the load/intensity from one workout to the next by having heavy, light, and moderate days. Let's say that Saturday is the heavy day, Monday is the light day, and Wednesday is the moderate day. As of now, I don't know which kettlebell I'll be using. For the sake of this discussion, I'll say it'll be the 53lb. bell.
For the first week of training, the book advises to do three ladders with three "rungs". The second week = four ladders with three rungs. The third week = five ladders with three rungs. Week four = five laders with four rungs. You eventually work up to five ladders with five rungs. When you successfully complete five ladder with five rungs, you move up to the next sized bell.
A: if you started doing 3x1,2,3 on heavy, then the light would be 3x1 and the medium would be 3x1,2. the next week do 4x1,2,3 on heavy and 4x1 and 4x1,2 on the light and medium days, respectively. then up to 5 sets. once you can do 5 sets, then go back to 3 but add a rung (3x1,2,3,4). Do this until you are up to 5x1,2,3,4,5 on the heavy day then move up a size.
A: Are you repeating your ladders, or just going up one ladder as far as you can? In my opinion, if you are using ladders to build your maximum reps, repeating shorter ladders really takes best advantage of the ladder format. The beauty of ladders comes when your drop down and repeat the ladder; since you are following your top set by going back down to 1 rep, you continue to build your rep count while recovering from your hard sets. So your workout might look like this 1234 1234 123 123. I wouldn't worry about how many reps you are getting at the top of the ladder. In fact, don't push too hard on that top rung; it should be difficult, but not a true maximal effort.
Q: just started reading enter the kettlebell and got to the ladders part. just to clarify;
if i do 3 ladders of 1-2-3. each number is the amount of reps follwed by a rest. a rest is where you feel fully rested to continue on the next set while maintaining proper form. once i complete 3 in 1 set, the first ladder is complete right?
now is it better in the workout to increase ladders or reps? so instead of 1-2-3, do 1-2-3-4-5. or do 4 ladders of 3?
A: As far as your first question goes, you are correct, upon completing 3 repetitions on each arm in one set, the first ladder is over. Your first ladder of three would look like so:
1 L, 1R, rest
2L, 2R, rest
3L, 3R
Then you would begin your second ladder in the same manner.
As far as the question of increasing ladders or reps, ETK calls for you to add one ladder per week at first, working up to 5 ladders. So you would be performing 4 ladders of 3 during week 2, and 5 ladders of 3 during week 3. Once you have worked up to 5 ladders of 1,2,3, you will begin attempting to add additional repetitions in the weeks to follow. Once you have successfully performed 5 ladders of 1,2,3,4, then you shoot for 5 ladders of 1,2,3,4,5. At that point you should be looking to start over with the next size bell. Hope this helps, and good luck in your training.
I am working toward the magic 100 mark for KB snatches. This morning I completed snatch ladders to 10. 1 right, 1 left, 2 right, 2 left... totalling 54 each arm. It only took 10 minutes and that was with a couple breaths between numbers (especially the higher end;)). I was sucking wind! My goal is to work up to 10 each arm, then back down the ladder. I'd even like to work up to 15 or 20 reps on these. Being evil is so much fun!!!
Ladders are a great way to go. I love to only go down the ladders. 16kg snatches 5-4-3-2-1 x 5 ladders with only 1 in rest after a set with both arms was my first goal. I am going to work up to 10 ladders. I also do a ladder of 10 down to 1 on other days. This morning I did bottoms up press this way. I feel Im ready to get the 24Kg. KB. High reps have never been my fav long before I ever heard of KBs. By doing ladders it eliminates the mental part by making It appear "short and sweet" and extends your endurance in a subtle way. Awesome way to train.
Rest and Recovery A few heuristics, humbly offered
It seems the question about "how much rest between sets" has come up quite a few times recently. I thought it might help to have an idea of what's going on with the usual weight/rest (or weight/wait) prescriptions, as each has different effects in terms of type of muscular changes and metabolic system adaptations. I hope at the end it will be even clearer that kettlebells really are remarkable fitness tools. It's hard to think of another example that works across as many of these variables.
Please accept the following as a rough discussion of how we might think about rest/weight ratios - figuring out how long we might want to have a break depending on our particular training goals. As a draft, if there are any inaccuracies that fellow posters can see, please feel free to comment on them. If there is too much stuff stating the obvious for you, apologies in advance. Any errors here are mine.
so, to begin (or if you want to skip all this, the summary is at the bottom :> )
In another post starting to discuss this, i used Steve Freids's Snatch Test prep as the example. Let me expand on that here using pull ups and then come back to the snatch test.
Rest and Weight (or Wait and Weight)
First, rest is generally correlated to the weight being used, which is generally correlated to some kind of Rep Maximum. Usually a 1RM. Thus, rest in resistance training is largely related to goals - what you're trying to achieve in your training. Now, we can break for as long as we want, but length of break has an effect on types of results, and thus is best matched to types of load being used.
Rest for Strength and Power
Work on recovery for both Strength and Power has shown that both modes seem to require the same rest prescriptions. In strength, one is looking at performance of maximal loads - being able to do a single rep at a maximal level. reps are usually in the 3-5 range per set or fewer. Here rest periods between sets are about 2-5mins long, depending on the papers you read. take a look at Brett Jones's page on various Deadlift protocols for these kinds of rep/set schemes.
Why do you need that kind of recovery for these kinds of weights? Because these lifts use a particular part of our metabolism more than others to generate the chemicals needed to fuel our muscles for these brief powerful lifts, and that system gets tapped in less than 30secs. It needs up to 6-8 times the time of the effort to recharge those systems.
It reminds me of what happens when you go from a dark room to a bright one and your eyes feel blinded - that's the rodopsin in the cones (or is it rods) of the eyes getting bleached - it takes some time for the chemicals to recharge and re adapt back to the light. A set of lifts likewise wipes out the checmicals in the phosphogen system (think creatine) that let the muscles contract.
So, if your goal is to do the Beast Challenge and do one pull up with a 48kg bell attached to you, you'd be doing 85-90% sets of 2-3 reps of whatever your current 1RM weighted max is with 2-5min rests in between sets. Tight, comrades! We need that phosphagen system ready to crank for us, so full rest; optimal replenishment. And this need is why someone like power lifter clarence bass (the guy to whom Pavel dedicated Beyond Bodybuilding) does talk about creatine as one of the only two supplements he uses (protein powder with his oatmeal in the am being the other one). But i digress.
Rest in Muscle Fiber Development (Hypertrophy)
If your goal is to be whipping off more pullups, though, we're shifting gears and actually pushing into the area of muscular hypertrohphy and endurance. This is not to say that to do lots of pullups you're not strong and powerful, just that for that activity (more reps before a rest), you're actually working a different kind of strength that predominantly involves a different energy system than in maximal lifts. 20 pull ups, say, takes some time to get through. 2-5 minutes. That's the world of carb burning, of multiple reps, of hypertrophy and endurance.
Now in the hard style community there has been some dissing of hypertrophy because of associations with bodybuilding, and the sense of some approaches to bodybuilding that seem to be all about frankensteining body composition and less to do with athletecism and strength. But hypertrophy/endurance is a normal part of a training cycle, and there is nothing wrong with building some exrta cross sectional muscle area to enjoy more myacin/actin bridges developing along the muscle fibers to be able to lift more, more of the time. Take a look at images of tracy reifkind's shoulders: that's an example of hypertrophy in a strong, powerful woman. Watch that woman swing for ages, that's endurance. You want to tell her she's wrong in her training approach?
So what's hypertrophy in terms of rest and weight?
lighter loads than strength/power with more reps in the sets and shorter rest between sets (30s - 1.5 mins, again depending on the papers you read). Likewise endurance - somewhat lighter loads than that and even shorter breaks of longer sets. As one works with a weight, it becomes perceptably lighter over time. A weight that could only be used hypertrophically today, may tomorrow be what's used for endurance work.
A great example of this kind of endurance/hypertrophy work is Escalating Density Training by Pavel's Comrade, Charles Staley.
Here, a 15min training zone means using a weight you could go 10 reps with (about 75% of a 1RM) and only doing sets of five with it, alternating it with a move that works the antagonistic muscles to it. DL's alternating with Floor Presses, for instance. The rest taken between sets is only as long as you think you need with the goal of getting in as many sets as possible. Initially you may get in 10 sets with 30sec breaks (hypertrophy rest period) and work over a week or so to 12 or more sets with 15 sec or less (endurance) breaks before adding more weight and beginning again.
One of the effects of these shorter rest periods and 75% loads is to push on that glycogen energy system - that's the one that when really taxed makes you feel like you want to puke (not good; not advised). That's lactic acid build up. Developing skill and strength in this hypertrophy/endurance way not only builds up muscle fibers, it also helps move the lactic acid threshold up - your body learns to cope with that more acid environment for longer before its negative effects kick in. You can feel "fresh" longer. Fatigue is one of the biggest examples of the effects of lactic acid taking over: chemically it gets in the way of the other chemicals which help muscles fire.
So, shorter rest, somewhat lighter loads, more reps = building muscle fiber size for more cross bridges (nothing wrong with that) and increasing lactic acid threshold - that means more swings, or more snatches without "dying"
And in the world of pull ups, it means if one bodyweight pull up is currently impossible, what can you pull up right now 1 time, say with the lat pull machine? figure out 75% of that, and get going. This is where jump bands can be a great aid. The important thing here, as Pavel's Pull Up Program has it doing ladders, is prepping your body with rep/rest both to build up your strength (the ability to do the pull up) and your endurance (to do more with less rest).
- Putting it together with the Snatch Test and Longer
Indeed, Steve's Snatch Prep program
takes us through converting the snatch test from a strength/power focused activity into a hypertrophy/endurance one.
Consider, as Steve puts it
Level 1: Short Sets, Full Recovery, Perfect Technique
Level 2: Increase Volume
Level 3: Shorten the Rests
Level 4: Long Sets
In level 1, the KB feels pretty dam heavy to snatch once. If it didn't you wouldn't need this program. Therefore doing a few reps, with long breaks, means you're building up strength.
In Level 2, as you build up more sets with similar rest periods, you're bulding more strength.
You're working that phosphagen energy system and working on replenishing it with the rests to be able to support you with what still feel like those all out efforts.
In level 3, as you shorten the rest breaks, and perhaps getting more reps into a set, you're moving away from brute strength (because you're stronger and the weight hasn't changed) to hypertrophy: building muscle mass now, too. that lean mass is good for you on a number of levels. go for it! good for you. Fatigue is still an issue if you don't have breaks to regnerate some energy, sip some carbs perhaps, depending on how long you're going. You are progressing to shorter breaks: happy days, your lactate threshold may also be moving up as it takes longer for fatigue to set in at this weight of bell
In level 4, you guessed it: with set breaks reduced to zero, you have longer sets, you're now talking endurance. Your fatigue level with this weight of bell has gone down sufficiently to allow you to keep going for the necessary period.
Now, ok, technically for the snatch test, you may only be going for a wee bit over three minutes, if that, and that's barely getting into what is technically an endurance level activity - that is, moving from predominantly tapping into carbs as a fuel source (glycogen metabolism) and into carbs/fats (oxidative fuel system). Folks like Tracy and Rif, however, are doing exactly that move into the oxidative/endurance space when they're swinging non-stop for anything over 3 mins.
Intervals: an aside: standard aerobic endurance improving acticities.
if we push beyond the snatch test and look at Kenneth's VO2max protocol,
we do really really get into pushing on both the glycolytic system and the aerobic/oxygen metabolism using intervals of short work/short rest. This approach not only moves the maximum oxidative capacity up (VO2max), it has a nice side benefit from the intervals of moving the lactic acid threshold too (i leave Kenneth to explain that correlation). The VO2max test may be less aerobic (oxidative) than swinging for an hour for a technical reason (and again i defer to The Dane of Pain here), but it's quite possible for the heart rate to go beyond what is considered aerobic and into anaerobic territory. KJay gates this by using the 5 min test protocol to get the correct no. of swings per 15 sec bout to stay at that edge, though. Anyway, it's not recommended to this kind of intense work for more than a couple times a week, since you have to go that close to the edge to make a difference.
These same phases are modeled in Pavel's ETK for building up to a heavier kettlebell in pressing, complemented with arbitrary length swing/snatch session: tapping those different energy systems with balance of weight/rest for success: do ladders progressively with one weight; then go back down and start again with the next weight, laddering up. As the starting rung it's heavy, so only a few rungs; over time with the ability to do more rungs/reps, it's lighter. The weight moves from strength work to hypertrophy work. The swings/snatches get endurance work in their to round everything out.
Summary**
+ Strength/Power - Phosphagen System mainly - full recharge needs 2-5 minutes based on a high load few rep set
Can add volume (no. of sets) without changing rep scheme or break length
+ Muscle Fiber Building/Hypertrophy or just want to get to somewhat longer sets
Taxing Glycolytic system - perhaps not full recharge
6-10 reps at 75% load-ish, 30sec - 1.5 mins rest
+ Endurance - want to just keep going
Getting into O2 system with 50%'ish loads (or less)
lighter loads, longer sets, less breaks - 10-15 secs breaks if at all.
So, what are your goals with the move of interest?
I hope the above helps make clear another reason why kettlebells hard style are so cool: they make it easy to work ourselves out wholistically: we get time in a KB cycle to work out each energy (metabolic) system; we consequently get to work our muscles in a variety of ways for both CNS, strength, power, hypertrophy and cardio. And it's good to have 'em all: a lowly bodybuilder could lift a lighter weight longer than a power lifter, even though the power lifter is "stronger"; a runner will get away from the tiger even though the strong person *may* be able to crack open its jaws to get his head out, but a hardstyle kettlebeller is truly smart, and will have read the sign that said "wild tigers lose" and gone to swing somewhere else, and live to press another day.
Endurance with swings
I would not recommend straight sets of swings. I worked up to 12 minutes with the 24. It did not do anything for me - just made me tired.
Do some kind of intervals with the swings.... it will train you system even better than straight sets. I believe you need to circulate your blood. The tension in swings tends to prevent significant oxygen diffusion to the muscles. I believe this is why snatches are preferred for Max Vo2 methods.
Swing intervals will get you in great shape.
Q: I have been doing etk for a while and can do 5 rungs of 5 ladders with 53lb. I have moved up to the 30kg and am working at it. My problem is I want to incorporate more variety of movements and cardio type of work. I like to try and jog 5k a few times a week. I would also like to do some heavy olympic lifts occassionally. I gues my problem is in trying to figure out how to add different workouts into etk without losing my pressing strength I have already gained. what do others do in terms of variety. I try to work out every morning but usually miss one or two per week do to work.
A: Do your O-lifting. And keep pressing...snatches for conditioning.
For example:
Monday:
Clean+Jerk
70%x2x5 sets
OH Press
2 ladders to 5
Tabata Snatches or VO2 max or SSST or...then maybe Snatch instead of clean and TGU instead of press on wednesday.
Q: In ETK, p137 it says, "When you can do 5 x (1, 2, 3, 4, 5), advance to a heavier kettlebell."
Then, on p145: "When you top five repetitions per arm with the one next up, it is time to move up to this kettlebell in your weekly ladders."
Now, I can do 5x(1,2,3,4,5) but I can barely press the heavier one once, so it's obviously out of question to move up.
So, should I:
1. be patient, do the ladders with the lighter one as before and see what the next test brings;
2. add in some push-presses with the heavier one
A: If you can press 5(1-5) then that's 75 reps per side or 150 reps total. That's a lot of reps.
Back down the volume and press the next weight. Your body will accomodate to the decreased volume and your perceived weakness with the bigger bell should be only temporary (this is called the theory of "supercompensation" and it is hotly debated in the strength world...) and it will only be a matter of time until you see a rebound in your strength levels.
In the mean time, try multiple sets of 1 or 2 or even 3 for 2-4 weeks then restart the ladders if you wish or move on to a 5x5 or whatever...
A: It isn't a race; if you're not comfortable moving up, then don't. Kenneth Jay's suggestion sounds good. If five ladders are too easy try six or seven or eight.
I myself am much more pig-headed and dogmatic. So when I reached 5X(1,2,3,4,5) on a weight, I immediately moved up. Of course, I then could only do 3X(1). But that's the point of training: pushing yourself and moving up. Eventually I went from 3X(1) to 5X(1) to 5X(1,2), etc.
So, what I'm trying to say is have fun and progress however you want.
Breathing behind the shield - How?
Such an interesting topic that could be hashed for days... this is where the swing, in my opinion, really lifts its chin and demonstrates why it is such a superior exercise AND why Hard Style is such an effective system... this is my spin on the subject, even though some of the rest of the Party might not totally agree... first off, the notion of contracting the abs does not mean a full contraction as in sitting up or crunching... what it means is an "appropriate" amound of tension within the abdomen to maintain proper spinal alignment throughout the movement... the forces working on the body during the swing opens the door for dozens of technique flaws... I work with college aged athletes every day and most of them lack the focus it takes to pull off a text book swing... the top of the swing, without the abdominals engaged, causes the victim to hyperextend which, after about a few thousand swings, will result in low back pain/discomfort... the shield/abdomial contraction not only keeps the spine in a neutral position at the top of the swing but also continues to aid in sending the energy out to the bell (preventing energy leakage within the torso)... (think of the abdominals in the same manner as the scaps- you keep tension in the upper back but you don't try and hold them together touching- just enough tension to keep the upper back aligned and the shoulders out of the movement) most of hiss or have a forceful release of the adominal pressure (air) at peak contraction and then breathe past the lungs down into the basement floor prior to the next hip extension... the entire time the abs are tense... Most need to find a smoothe rhythm to our breathing to really put it into play during our swing sets... Pavel talks of relaxed tension during the swing and most of us need to experiment with our own techniques... if your swing is choppy (lacks rhythm) and there tends to be tons of jerking within the movement, you are probably letting go of your abs too early, or entirely, and the bell is in charge... stay strong up top, keep tension throughout the entire body until the movement dictates it's time to let go and reload (usually that last second before you "deflower" yourself)... a good swing sesh will be very powerful and will look very smooth and pendulem-esque... tension tension tension... lots of info but I hope some of it made sense... best of luck!
I got cast iron (no coating) kettlebells at a store in Warwick (Gym Source) for about half the price and there was no shipping. They had most sizes at the store. But I will say that the coated on this site are much better looking.
Elbow pain
Sounds very much like tennis elbow. I've been suffering with it for a while and have been investigating how to deal with it. Rest didn’t help – as soon as I started again it flared up again.
But I have found something that works – eccentric training. In fact it works very well.
The basic protocol I follow is to place my arm on a table, about chest height, with the forearm flat on it and the hand (palm down) hanging over the edge of the table so that wrist flexion is unimpeded. Extend the wrist back fully, grab hold of the weight, and lower the weight slowly (c.6 seconds) down to fully flexed. Use your other arm to help the weight back up – don’t use your muscle to do it. I do sets of 25 reps. I use a large sock filled with weights and up the weights a bit every few days. This is good because it dangles down, doesn’t hit the table and seems to apply a more constant force over the range of movement, unlike say holding a dumbbell. I guess if you are strong enough and it suits your wrist you could use a kettlebell held in the hand or dangling from a strap or sock or whatever. It’s OK to use a weight which hurts the inflamed area whilst doing the exercise as long as it is on the eccentric movement. In fact the research I’ve done into it indicates that some discomfort is actually a good thing. The concentric movement should be unweighted so shouldn’t hurt. However I’d recommend starting off below the pain threshold initially.
It seems the effects are not just related to muscle strengthening but the eccentric movement has a direct effect on reducing over-vascularisation in the damaged area as well as aiding tendon strength.
Wearing a tennis elbow strap below the elbow helps take the strain off it during general life and especially other exercise. I can also recommend one of those too. They are cheap. Any other exercise or activity which worsens the pain should be avoided. For me this includes using a computer mouse.
Encouraged by this success I’ve been applying the eccentric idea to other pains I have such as shoulder bursitis and again it really does seem to help. I’m now doing some eccentric only workouts and it’s helped shoulders, wrists and elbow pain. It also appears to be an effective exercise as far as hypertrophy goes.
This article outlines some of the research done into it: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3987/is_200404/ai_n9356432
This forum thread outlines some specifics for tennis elbow treatments: http://forums.jpfitness.com/training-discussion/1023-brian-can-you-fix-my-elbows.html
Obviously I’m not a health professional and can only tell you what worked for me. It also relies on you actually having tennis elbow. There are various tests basic physical you can use which you can find on google.
I think NeilC's advice may be helpful. If your pain is on the outside of the arm do as Neil says with palms down, if it is on the inner elbow side then do the same thing with palms up. This isn't what I'm doing but it may help as negatives change some of the structure of tissues. It is worth a shot.
Pressing
I'm not an RKC. I'm no profressional and I only know what I read and experience. Someone with more knowledge may come along and correct me if I'm wrong. I have pressed 48kg and performed a getup with 56kg at 151lb so I have some experience but I'm not a great troubleshooter.
Quote: 1. I can get my 32KG overhead, but it requires me to kick the hip to the side and "get under" the bell a la side press. Not a full side press, but it's not a strict military press either. I imagine this will dissipate as I get stronger.
It will dissipate as you get stronger unless you use a heavy weight. I don't know how much you weigh, but the 32kg didn't require a side lean when I weighed 144lb but I still lean about 45 degrees when I press the bulldog or Beast at 151lb. So some things never dissipate.
Quote: 2. The "groove" of the strict military press confuses me. In ETK Pavel says to think "lateral raise meets reverse Pec-Deck" on the way up but bringing the bell out to the side robs me of all of my strength. Maybe I'm coming out too far?
Raise your arm out straight to the side as far back as it goes with the upper arm parallel to the ground and your forearm vertical. Now try and push outwards with your elbow. It helps to stand with your elbow about an inch from the wall to give you a target. That's you groove. Unless your forearm leans out or forward, you should be fine.
Quote: 3. The firing of the lat seems to be missing in the strict press as well. When I have to pseudo-side press the 32K, I can feel it's engaging but when pressing lighter weights overhead that feeling isn't nearly as strong. Corrections?
Having someone gently strike your lat has helped some I train with. As far as it being missing, that's something that needs to be fixed. Think about this. When a person jerks a kettlebell, they typically try and push with their toes. Why would this change from any other type of hip drive? The jerk can be done without driving through the heels but it is not a good idea from a training standpoint. That's why Kenneth Jay has recommended performing long push presses and gradually decreasing the depth until you are doing a Viking push press. As long as you go only as far as your technique will carry you, you will finish solid. The above applies only if you're training the Hard-Style jerk as Girevoy Sport is a different animal and beside the point.
That being said, you can perform a strict press without firing your lat, but it's not a good idea and something you shouldn't do with a heavy weight. So practice side presses and decrease side lean only as much as you can while pressing with the lat flared and practice your military presses with your partner striking your lat. This should get you using your lat even during the strict press, especially if you alternate the two.
Performing your presses blindfolded helps a lot and Jordan made the point about the shoulder being out. Adding to his suggestion, visualize the elbow and shoulder like a seesaw. As the elbow goes higher, the shoulder sinks in. This advice came from David Whitley and Kenneth Jay.
Again, I'm no professional and anyone who knows better is welcome to correct me.
You hold the answers deep within your own mind. Consciously, you've forgotten it. That's the way the human mind works. Whenever something is too unpleasant, to shameful for us to entertain, we reject it. We erase it from our memories. But the imprint is always there
Hard style
The AKC techniques are techniques for improving numbers while the Hard-style is geared toward strength and conditioning. While there are many AKC who claim that you get plenty of strength and conditioning from GS, the RKC has been refining their techniques constantly specifically for the subject.
Think about it like this. The RKC instruct you to keep a neutral spine for it's health. It prevents loading the ligaments. Slight forward flexion may reduce lower back fatigue, but it can lead to microtrauma within the intervertebral discs. It is certainly contraindicated to anyone with lower back issues.
The RKC don't teach the corkscrew maneuver for anything but improving snatch numbers because it has less of a carryover to grip strength. I've known people to be able to close the No.2 Captains of Crush gripper the first time they tried. This was due to Hard-style snatches with 32kg and no other grip training. If you've read any material by Pavel, you are no doubt aware of irradiation. If not, make a fist. Make it a white knuckle, hard as you can fist. You'll notice that it increases tension in your biceps and shoulder despite no intentional flexion on you part. Think. If you can squeeze harder, you can add even more tension to those muscles. Increased muscular tension while you lift is increased strength, stability, etc. So challenging your grip during your snatches will also improve your strength training.
Next, think about the level of tension used. AKC teaches you to use just enough tension to do you work. This helps you get more reps because you don't fatigue as quickly. RKC teaches to emphasize tension. This is not saying to flex every muscle in your body as hard as you can, you can dial it in specific to the load. But tension takes priority over repetition. Why? In addition to improving stability of the joints, strength, work capacity, it improves cardio. Remember, there is a difference between hard and effective. Search mc's and Kenneth Jay's posts on cardio for details. It is beyond the scope of my modest post.
David Whitley said, "The main benefit that I see to GS style is the ability to go longer, like a fast run instead of a sprint. Having said that, I believe that the benefits of interval training with HS ballistics has a better carryover to other athletic application. HS teaches a superior power transfer from the ground up, more useful for sport and combat application."
Let's look at breathing. The AKC teaches one to exhale at the bottom of the swing or snatch as this minimizes core tension. Less tension=less fatigue. But by bracing, you improve cardio (again, refer to mc's and Kenneth Jay's posts). Then you have the fact that the bracing is important for spinal health. Many people advocate hollowing to work the "inner unit" muscles like the transversus abdominis. This does work it, but it's like doing curls to improve your pullups. There is little to no carryover from isolation to compound movements as it does not train intermuscular coordination. Training is so movement specific that the muscle fibres within the biceps are not necessarily the same fibres used during a pullup. The same would apply to this inner unit. By bracing, this "inner unit" work with the other abdominals to support the lower back. Refer to Stuart McGill's work for more details.
The glutes are so incredibly important for lower back health and performance. When the glutes are weak, the load in a lift is shifted to the lower back and is associated with tight hip flexors. Vladimir Janda found that gluteal amnesia and tight hip flexors were among the leading causes of lower back problems.
Andrea DuCane said, "the relaxed hip movements are not going to have the same effect of strengthening the back as Hard-style. You want and need to stretch and explode the hip flexors and you need and want to load the gluts. That is where the health benefits come from in Hard-style."
The swing and snatch are the most crucial movements for core training. I hate to use that word but it applies very much to this context. The body generates power through the hips, transfers the power through the waist, and carried along the kinetic chain. The abdominals, obliques, and "inner unit" braces to support the spine. Every core muscle is worked. Refer to Secrets of the Core for more details.
Now, something to consider. I read in an Army Times article that the RKC is unique in that it trains movements over muscles. It didn't quite sink in what this meant at first. Think about it. The mechanics of Hard-style lifting are identical to safe lifting habits outside of the gym. I'm not going to pick up a heavy box without bracing and keeping a neutral spine. You're more than welcome to try lifting with a round back.
According to motor learning, it takes 1,000 reps just to learn the movements being taught. It's not until 10,000 to 100,000 repetitions before you hit the associative learning phase(Fitts &Posner, 1967). Practicing all of the RKC methods during your swings builds upon these functional movement patterns. Bracing, driving with the hips, neutral spine, retracting the shoulders, all of these are functional movement for athletic endeavors outside of Girevoy Sport.
Timed work
Tonight I lifted the 1.5 pood (24kg) KB for 24 straight minutes without putting it down. Was doing One-Armed Long Cycle Clean and Jerks (OALCC&J). Switched hands every minute. This is my personal record for time with the 1.5. I did not count reps but I kept at least 10 rpm, maybe more, for the entire set.
Santa got me training for time, and that opened up a whole new world for me. I don't think anything has had this big an impact on me since Power to the People (By the way, I still think that is Pavel's greatest book. It is the best strength training book I have ever read. Ever.).
I really think that training for time without setting down the KB is as significant as the priciples in PTP.
I lift alot more reps per workout. The volume is alot bigger. Which leads to greatly increased work capacity. My shoulders became noticably more musclular. My forearms got alot stronger. But i'm not bulky. You basically get the body and conditioning of a manual laborer. Your hands are stronger.
The other thing is exercise selection. Sure, TGU's can be done for time and I've had success doing that. But when you lift for time every day, you will probably pare down your routine to snatches, jerks, long cycle and variations of the three. In other words, ballistics only.
But here's the thing: when you lift ballistics only, you can do the lifts every day. I lift 5 days a week without over-training. Which is another thing that increases your total volume. You get five quality hi-rep, hi-volume days a week. You don't get as sore as you do from grinds. Its not like walking the day after doing loads of heavy squats or having a sore shoulder or chest after doing ten sets of bench presses. The load is so evenly spread among your body that if you are sore, its really more of a general fatigue or very slight stiffness. But really, I'm rarely sore.
Basically, I have a workout that suit my perceived needs, which is general physical preparedness. I want to be able to unload a moving truck full of furniture then push-mow my lawn for two hours without being sore the next day. I want to be able to carry two of my kids up the stairs with ease if I need to. I want a workout for my heart, lungs, strength, and coordination. And I think I have it now.
ETK programs
If you have ETK, you are either following one of two protocols:
- Program Minimum - get ups and swings
- Rite of Passage (RoP) - C&P 3x/week, Swings 2x/week, Snatches(lite) 1x/week + two variety days/week to do what you want.
The reason that we only do one set of snatches per week in RoP is that you are building your conditioning with the swings (there are many reason for this, all outlined in ETK) and the snatches that you do should be perfect. By doing snatches every day when your form is admittedly not so good with your left hand, you are grooving in incorrect movement pattern.
Follow the plan as written and you will succeed in your fitness goals.....
Sometimes you have to slow down (to build that solid foundation) to speed up. I would be interested to hear what others think, but if you just did TGUs (even just BW) and swings (i.e., the Program Minimum) until you build your swing volume to 100 swings/arm with the 16kg and were pressing it with ease, you will still hit your fitness goals and not hurt your long-term snatch proficiency.
He is right about slowing down when you first start the Prog Min for ETK. On this forum one refers to "workouts" as "practice". Simply practice the movement for TGUs and swings and you are good to go for Fat loss. Kbing is a skill like ball room- dancing, golf or karate...you have to learn correct movement and form. As you become more proficient and confident you can PRACTICE longer and more aggressively...then move up to a heavier bell. I started out too fast and did many more snatches than I should ... and paid the price for it with an aching shoulder.
Can one drill deliver?
For me it certainly did. It wasn’t planned or anything, but on my last cycle I felt like my 24k snatches were getting really easy and fluid. I put it down to a WTH effect then and moved on. A few days later I tried the snatch again, convinced in my heart that it wasn’t a WTH effect but an overall improvement. Luckily, I was right and now I have ‘broken away’ from doing like 200 snatches a week to about a 1000. It has gotten to a point right now that sometimes my workouts are only snatches. However, I do try to throw in other drills time to time (circuit style) to keep things balanced.
Here are some things I have noticed:
- Improved Endurance
- Weight and fat loss
- A VISIBLE increase in muscle density in the delts, back, traps, forearms, biceps, abs, and thighs.
- Makes my day more enjoyable. Hard to explain, but I get very little soreness or fatigue. And if I don’t do at least 50 snatches in the morning, my day just sucks
What was it Pavel teaches you to do? Something about keeping your sphincter tight? Could someone explain this to me please thanks.
Pull up your Perineum!
Engage with intent the muscles you use when trying to stop yourself from going #1 or #2. Especially when squatting with weight, pressing - anything where you are loaded. The tendency may be to want to "push out" so to speak in that area...don't do it! Focus on stabilizing from the inside - Nice breath into your lower abdomen, pull up your perineum (the area b/w your poop shoot and your naughty bits - again, like you are trying to stop yourself from peeing) - pressurize your center. Voila!
Working up to 200 consecutive snatches
I feel that I am closing in on 200 on the SSST, want i'm not sure on is how to put the numbers together. Can anyone offer some advice on what sets/reps they did to achieve 200? I'm thinking of a big first set with no rest (say 70 snatches) then doing progressively smaller sets with increased rest period. Does this sound like a good approach?
I just did 209 this past Sunday, my 45th birthday. I switched hands every 5 reps,resting about 20 to 25 seconds between each set. I did 50, 50, 40, 40, & 29. I could've gotten a few more just by shortening my rest periods 5 seconds. Doesn't sound like much but you're talking 8 to 10 more snatches.
My training was nothing cosmic. With the 24 kg KB I usually did 200 one armed swings, 100 cleans, 100 Clean & Press, and 100 to 140 snatches about 4 to 5 days a week.
Try 12 left, 12 right for the first five minutes then hit a minimum of 8 per arm each minute for the remaining five minutes. This method gets 60% of the total work done in 5 minutes allowing you coast to the finish with a relatively easy 8 reps per arm per minute and hit 200.
At 160lbs I was able to consistently hit 24 reps in 44 seconds for the first five minutes of the SSST giving myself 16 seconds of rest each minute. From there on out I just made sure I did at least 8 per arm each minute sometimes more when I felt like it. I made sure I had at least 16 seconds rest each minute then went all out the final minute with no rest. My final score was 225. Next time I hope to go 6 or 7 minutes at 24 per minute.
I CAN do 10L/10R on the minute for 10 minutes and do it that way pretty easily. But if you want to max your numbers you need to start with bigger sets to use up time w/o hand switches that slow you down. One caveat, if the set is TOO LONG and grip fatigue sets in, you then have to slow your reps down -- which does not help either. I did something like the following:
20L/20R
15L/15R
5x10L/10R
Whatever I could do to keep the bell moving
Ended up at 122 for the first five minutes/100 for the second five minutes.
For the five minute test, you can use longer faster initial sets because you time is very limiting...I started with 30L/35R, 20L/25R and kept the bell moving after that for 137.
Dave Whitley's advice in his articles helped me, as well as the ladder method where you go 1R, 1L, 2R, 2L, and so on up to 10 and then back down again (which would equal 200).
Weight loss
First things first, quit talking about it and get the kettlebell. Eat less, move more and expect as long to take it off as it took to put it on. When in doubt, don't eat.
DARC Swing?
Release the bell at the top of the swing, catch it with the other hand and repeat.
t's a one arm swing where you switch hands at the top of the swing. You switch hands right at the time where the kb gets light at the top of the swing. This is why Rif and Tracy call them transfers. If you feel like it's to far out in front of you drop it. If you have to reach for it, it will hurt your back.
Direct Action Resource Center Swings, pronounced "Darcy." It's an alternating one handed swing with the switch on top. You'll want a clear release then grab while the bell is weightless at the top of the swing (not grab then release--it's not an exchange but a first stage juggling technique).
My Circuit
I love this, i try and do as many complete rounds in 20 mins
R TGU
L TGU
2 x Clean & Jerk 2 KB's
R Windmill
L Windmill
R 10 Swings
L 10 Swings
10 double swings
R 5 Snatch
L 5 Snatch
1 min figure 8 drill (through legs)
10 V sits
5 Pull Ups
R pistol
L pistol
Most i have managed is 3 complete rounds with a 1 pood.
Hope you can find some joy with it.
Are swings harder than snatches?
2 Arm swings are a different animal because your grip is different. At first one may think, oh two hands less grip work..But the grip established on the bell is not the same grip as the grip you would use for one hand...So, it is more taxing if you are not used to it.
It is all about intensity. If I'm pacing myself on snatches, I can do them longer than swings I've done 10 minutes (5 minutes each hand) with a one pood for 200+ reps.
I have done 80-100 swings with each hand with a one pood. Hard yes..More taxing than the snatch set..maybe if you look at the fact that the same amount of swings (roughly) took 1/2 the amount of time than the snatches. I was smoked after each set.
Try Tom Corrigan's test of doing 100 snatches (with multiple hand switches) as fast as you can. Then compare it to swings. What I think you will find is that you can get just as or more smoked by snatches if you are not pacing yourself and tryign to go as fast as you can.
The toughest 5 minute workout that I have ever done was when I snatched a 24kg bell 90 something times....
I have done 35 swings per arm with the 2 Pood (taken to between chest and waist level). My max for 2 Pood snatches is 10L/10R. I can do swings (10L/10R) with the 40kg(2.5 pood) and can clean it for reps, but I haven't worked up the nerve yet to snatch it...So, yes a relatively heavier weight is harder to snatch because you must "safely" fix that weight overhead..which isn't trivial.
Using a light kettlebell (for you) do 5-10 sets of 20-50 reps of kettlebell swings with 1 minute of rest between. Over time reduce the rest and/or increase the weight of the kettlebell. It is imperative that you coordinate your breathing with each rep at this point.
The GOLDMINE of the KB is when you push it way back like hiking a football. Barbells go straight up and down. When you push the bells back and load the whole posterior chain you have a something better than a Reverse hyper meets a dynamic pull through.
I've found nothing that compares to Kettlebell swings and snatches. These Kettlebell ballistic moves allow you to accelerate the weight downward faster than the speed of gravity making the next rep more difficult teaching explosiveness and hip drive while challenging the grip. In a way it's like weighted plyometrics without the shock to your joints. These are extremely athletic moves that teach you to explode,relax, explode, relax similar to the way a fighter or martial artists must do while striking. Swings done correctly are also an intense ab exercise better than crunches if you ask me.
Swing intervals
I haven't read that article, but it sounds like he's going 2 minutes on/ 1 minute off x 4. So four rounds of three minutes equaling 8 total minutes of work and 4 minutes of rest. Most people will generally find that they hit about 40 swings per minute. If you're going much faster or slower than this, your form is most likely faulty. You can create whatever protocol you like. Some do swings for five minutes straight= 200 swings in one shot.
As for the reps per interval. With a 24kg or 32kg, my reps are almost always 17 per 30 seconds or 34 a minute.
Here is what I do:
A set=(17 reps with left hand in a 30 second interval, 17 reps with right hand in a 30 second interval, 30 seconds of active recovery).
I do repetitions of the above set until my form gives out. If I feel very comfortable with 10 sets, I move up in weight the next time I do swings.
The general rule is this..by doing your swings hardstyle, maximum tension when appropiate, you will limit your reps as a byproduct, but at the same time work your cardio system hard. doing more reps with that weight can easily mean he is using a different breathing pattern, exhaling on the decent which does allow for more reps, but not advised when using say a 32. or maybe he just kicks ass. but back to the question. drive hips, exhale sharp at the top, and your reps will many time fall between 10-40.
I just follow the ETK guidelines. Pavel says do swings until you get tired or loose your form. My first set with the 20K, I do about 90 swings , 30 with one hand, 30 with the other and 30 with both hands. This takes about 2min40sec. Then I rest one minute breathing behind the sheild breaths. Then start over, the second through 4th set I usually get about 60 reps. Hope this helps you. I keep within a 12 minute time frame. I started a year ago with a 12K. As I got stronger I moved up. I may stay at this weight for a long time. I am 64 years old and weigh 128 lbs.
Numbers are different for everyone. I've found that performing a hardstyle swing, accelerating on the hike pass gets me to around 40 reps a minute. Depending on factors such as the size Kettlebell and whether or not I use perform single or double swings I may achieve hundreds of reps or 5-10 before I need to perform some active recovery.
Personally I don't focus on counting reps, what matters is the length of the round and the amount of rest you take. Gradually either increase the length of the rounds or decrease the amount of rest you take. As my technique became more efficient the swings became harder because I was getting more muscular contraction on each rep. In other words I am able to perform less perfect hardstyle reps than slow sloppy reps.
Simply follow the guidelines set forth in Enter the Kettlebell and you can't go wrong.
Thanks everyone!
I tried rounds on Sunday of (with a 12 kg so I could work on form) of Left Arm: 17 reps, Right Arm: 17 reps, rest 30 seconds, repeat.
I like the alternating 1 arm swings because it seems to be helping with my left side weaknesses uncovered by the Functional Movement Screen. Thanks for ALL the suggestions, though, I'll probably be trying every one of them as variations during the next 3 months.
Sprinting is a good interval form, to be sure.
If you're curious, research shows that doing 20 mins of intervals - not necessarily sprints (defined as TOTAL all out effort) is optimal to get that fat loss going - it's about the chemical reactions that take place in the brain to release the catecholamines that mobilize fat. It's actually kinda cool. So ya, you're plugged into a definite effect.
Some recent research has shown that 8 sec on/ 12 sec recovery is one of the best interval patterns, but even better if you can hack it is 24 on/36 recovery (work by trapp), so you're close to that, too.
The format Anthony Dilugio laid out in his AOS ETK workbook.
Before all workouts--10 minutes of wall squats, pumps, and halos
1st week:
20 swings--1 minute of jumping jacks
20 swings--1 minute of mountain climbers
20 swings--1 minute of squat thrusts
20 swings--1 minute of jogging in place
repeat sequence until your 12 minutes is up.
2nd week:
30 swings--" "
3rd week:
40 swings--" "
4th week:
50 swings--" "
Takes the guess work out of it and keeps you steadily progressing up. You can use other types of calisthenics for your 1 minute interval as well, these are what he recommended and I think they fit well.
You can work up to 10 ladders of 2-3-5, for a total of 100 repetitions on heavy days, five ladders on light days and six to eight ladders on medium days.
Pavel recommends using a kettlebell you can press more than five times for the ROP so doing it with the 32kg will probably wear you out.
I've done 5x5-r with the 24 kg, and four weeks ago introduced 28 kg to my hard days. It seems like I need heavy stimulus to gain strength more than just technique practice, which of course is an essential part of a successful lift. First week's test: 2 left, 4 right.
I did light and medium days with the 24 kg, five ladders of three and four rungs respectively, and on hard days I did as many singles as I could in 20 minutes. First session turned out 17 reps per arm, the next 23, and the last one 24, but I managed two doubles on each arm! I consider this an improvement, since just three weeks ago I could do only one double with left followed by a few singles, and that was it for the day.
You could try this approach; it seems to have worked for me. Or another option is to do the first rungs of your press days with the 32 kg. That way you can still work with high press volume while introducing your nervous system to a new buddy of yours, while with the aforementioned EDT approach you are lowering total volume in favor of more intense nervous "re-wiring."
Rest periods for ladders
A general recommendation is to use a 1:1 work to rest ratio for each rung. If it takes you 30 seconds to complete a rung, then rest 30 seconds before starting your next rung.
In ETK Pavel avoids given specific rest periods. Short rests and long rests will create strength gains for different reasons. As I understand it, shorter rest periods will demand more calories and build more muscle. Use longer rest periods to grease the groove, perfect technique and build strength without size.
For me... I try to finish all my ladders as quickly as possible while keeping a consistently slow pressing speed of about 3 seconds on the way up with maximum tension. The heavier the Kettlebell(s), the more rest I need.
I keep a running timer during my ladders. I do a right press, left press, then rest as long as those 2 presses took. Then I do 2 right presses, 2 left presses, then rest as long as those 4 presses took. After the top rung of my ladder, I rest 3 minutes before starting the next.
Hypothetical ladder:
(0:00)
1 right, 1 left (0:20)
rest (0:40)
2 right, 2 left (1:10)
rest (1:40)
3 right, 3 left (2:25)
Rest 3:00
Begin next ladder...
Just following Program Minimum
I should probably check my log, but I remember doing snatches occasionally, like once a week in sets of 10 with the 32. I don't think I was following the Prog Min by the letter, but swings and TGUs were the bulk of my training for about 2 months for three days a week. I used mostly the 32 and 40 and when I snatched it was with the 32. Then I randomly decided to do an SSST and got 201, 220, 240 on three consecutive days. It really blew my mind because I'm not naturally strong or athletic or anything.
This pretty much mirrors the advice in Jared's SSST article on the main page. Use swings to work the hip snap and cardio, TGU's to work on the lock out and shoulder endurance/stability. Add in regular KB workouts sparingly and use the SSST as a measure of your progress.
Posture exercises
In Super Joints, Pavel has 2 posture-focused mobility series that would be easy to do as a group exercise. If you have access to Z-health, practicing all the exercises would be helpful.
Something that has really helped my posture recently is the advice given in "Chi Walking". This also parallels Z-health to an extent. Have them stand with both feet facing straight ahead and parallel to each other. Feet should not be turned out or in. The feet should remain in this position for the duration of the exercise. This will feel awkward for most of them, but will feel less so the more they practice. Next, have them put one hand beneath their collar bone and one hand on their belly button. Keeping their hands in that position, have them lift the chest with the hand under the collar bone while simultaneously pulling down with the belly button hand. This will help to lengthen the spine and take them out of the slouched position. Again, this will feel awkward, but we're practicing here. Holding the achieved position, the next step is to level the pelvis by raising the pubic symphysis with the lower abdominals. This might be difficult for some of them to get. Another exercise for that will follow this explanation. The next step is to have them lengthen their neck by slightly tucking the chin and imagining the crown of their head is being pulled towards the sky. Next, have them bend their knees very slightly, just enough to remove any tension from the posterior knee. Lastly, holding the achieved position have them lean forward slightly to shift the center of gravity to the mid-foot instead of the heel. If they practice this frequently, their posture will improve quickly. This opens the chest and allows for more natural breathing as well.
To expand upon leveling the pelvis, get them into the aforementioned posture, then have them place one hand on the front of the pelvis and the back of one hand on the behind. Have them lift with the pelvis hand and push down with the behind hand. This will level the pelvis by lifting the pubic symphysis and tucking the tailbone.
To practice relaxed breathing, have them lie on their back with both hands resting on the belly button. On the inhale, the hands should rise with the expanding abdomen and fall on the exhale. This should get them to realize what relaxed diaphragmatic breathing feels like.
VO2 max workouts
3 months ago, I've discovered and played around, and then started training seriously with Kenneth Jey VO2 max protocols. These protocols are pretty single-minded: to give you the greatest heart of your life, and the core strength of a cougar, at the same time!
The promised results are coming, and they are coming one after the other. These protocols deliver: strength (core, glutes, hips, hamstrings, shoulders, grip), heart (the VO2 max part), and stamina to keep going in the gruelling series that are transforming your body and mind.
I started with the 15:15 protocol, 7 reps@16 kg, working up to 40 minutes. I quickly progressed to 8 reps and then 9 reps per 15 seconds working period, up to 40 minutes.
I now have started the 36:36 protocol, 19reps@16kg, and that's an ass-buster, with the same weight as before!! I feel I could crush my own bones by fisting my hands...My forearms...well, I don't know if they're mine anymore, as if someone just put them on me overnight!
And I mix the 36:36 @ 16 with a good ol' 15:15 @ 20kg (20 is heavy)
I do 3-4 snatch protocols a week (That's about 2h - 2h30' per week), and man, I've never, ever in my life felt so strong and supported so stoutly by my new cardiovascular system.
And the better part is: I can military press easily 20s and 24s in ladder rungs, but I am not even training specifically for that!!! I can also perform pullups where I was unable to do them!! Thanks, snatch lats!
So, with these protocols, you have it all: the strength (to press, to punch, to heave, whatever), the heart of the warrior, and the courage to get going when the pain starts showing its nose after 30 minutes of work.
This is why I will, from now on, specialize in these protocols, and follow them. Where they will take me I don't know, but by judging the path already done, I think it will be painful and good. SSST is in my view (6 months away)
Sample workout
Day 1
Kettlebell Snatch
Day 2
Get-Ups
One-hand Swings
Day 3
Simple Complex
Clean/Front Squat/Press
switch hands, repeat
TGU - how to switch hands
The reason that you should not do the switch over your body is that it puts a tremendous amount of stress on the elbow, medial (inner) side (unfortunately, I learned this the hard way).
The best way to switch in the fastest time is to:
1) Lower down to your side by rolling to the bell side.
2) Get up and slide it across the floor
3) Repeat on other side.
Always think about it this way -- If you wouldn't do it with a 106lb kettlebell, you probably shouldn't do it.
I roll to my side and hug the bell, then roll to the opposite side and set it down.
Lower the bell to your side. Sit up and spin around on your butt , now you are in position just facing the opposite direction.
I put the bell down, sit up and shift my body over, then lay back down with the bell on my opposite side.
Active recovery
I'm wondering if it is ok to start out by just walking around for active rest between swing sessions as part of the PM until I can build up a base level of conditioning to do more?
Like many others on this forum, my active recovery consists of walking around the bell and cussing at it... seems to work
Yes, walking is fine...Just do not slump forward...or sit or lay down...In time try to advance to maybe...10-20 jumping jacks...The idea is active recovery ...not relaxation...recover just enough so that you can complete the next round of swings...and repeat until you hit 12 minutes....when doing your rounds of swings...do them until you BEGIN to tire and before you lose form...do not be fixated on a number you have set in your head for that round of swings...the only number here is 12...12 minutes...Dennis
I agree that there is no need to over complicate this. In the last 3 weeks I have shed about 10 lbs with this very "complex" formula.
1. Changed my workouts over to high volume swings 3x week,VO2 snatches 2x week and get ups done 5-6 times per week.
2. I cut back on my calories and drank more water.
I really did not give it too much thought as to how I was going to drop some unwanted body fat as to me it seemed pretty simple. I will continue to use my formula until I get to where I want to be, or it stops working....Joe
After a workout your body is in a catabolic state. Catabolic means the body is breaking down as opposed to anabolic which is the body building itself back up. The two states are mutually exclusive. Yes, growth hormone is released in a catabolic state because it signals the body to breakdown fat cells, which is a good thing, but the body is also breaking down muscle tissue for amino acids. Because the body is catabolic, the growth hormone isn't used for growth because the body can't rebuild itself and breakdown at the same time. Cortisol, the stress hormone, is also released. Exercise is a stress on the body - we've all heard that you don't get stronger while exercising, you get stronger by resting. Consuming a PWO meal with sugary carbs will definitely release insulin which then shifts the body back to an anabolic state. This is why a sugary PWO meal or shake is recommended even for those on a low carb diet. The carbs won't get converted to fat but will be used to replace the glycogen used for the workout. The insulin will also make the nutrients and protein go into the muscles. Insulin is anabolic. The key is timing. Drinking chocolate milk while sitting on the couch will also release insulin, but the carbs will be stored as fat. Drinking chocolate milk after a workout will replenish glycogen and shuttle amino acids back into muscle tissue.
I'll say it again: it's about timing. This isn't about chasing good calories. It's about timing good calories.
"post-workout nutrition" or PWO nutrition. Ideally, PWO is not a big meal nor is it empty calories. It also does not need to be a high-priced protein shake. Chocolate milk is the poor man's PWO nutrition and works just fine.
Given this definition, I disagree completely that PWO nutrition is overrated. In fact, while dieting, PWO nutrition may be even more important in terms of preventing muscle loss and speeding recovery. Faster recovery = more training time = more calories burned. This is true even for a short workout of 30 minutes assuming the session was intense. A 30-minute walk doesn't need PWO nutrition. A 30-minute KB session would benefit from PWO nutrition.
Skipping PWO nutrition might burn a few extra calories, and yes those extra calories will come from fat, but the result is negligible.
And before you ask, I've lost 10 lbs. in the last three weeks, so I am currently practicing what I'm preaching.
I have used ROP primarily as my workout for some time now. My heaviest bell is a 32kg and I can handle it very well at this point. I can even do a 2/3 bottoms up press with it. ROP has made me amazingly strong, but this high volume pressing has not lent itself well to weight(fat) reduction. I know diet is a big part of this also, but I am going to change up my workout to emphasize cardio strength/edurance more for the next 6 weeks or so in order to get leaner. I am dropping to the program minimum for strength maintenance and upping the swing volume enormously as well as adding another day of VO2max. My workouts will be getups (10 min 3 times a week), swings, and snatches with lots of the swings and snatches. On my "off" days I will do some light jogging. I started it off today with 100 club swipes per arm (20lb club) and 30 minutes of kettlebell swing intervals at 24kg. Any thoughts? I also have another question. - Alt
Com. Atl, it is not up to me to comment on your nutrition but your training plan is solid. - Pavel
Get ups
I do them backwards. I start by snatching the dumbbell. Then I lower myself to the ground, get back up, and repeat with the other side.
swing hip thrust
Place your feet on either side of the kb.
Take a step forward with each foot.
Sit back not down, keep your weight on your heels and your lower legs vertical.
This loads your hamstrings. (edit for Com. Froese): GRAB THE HANDLE.
Lock your spine.
Keep your head up.
Keep your shoulders packed in their sockets but relax.
Move your hips first! HIPS FIRST!!!
EXPLODE!!!
One more thing: your kettlebell may be too light. Swinging a heavier kb ensures that you must use your hips to get it moving. When you say "significantly" what do you mean? You don't want to be going higher than your chest.
Good luck. Attempting to master the swing pays dividends in many ways
If you'll recall, Com. Pavel told you the purpose of the wall squat is to get you to "lock your spine." As you squat, you'll arch your spine in in concave fashion. You are correct in that the move keeps your spine from moving "out of place". Learning to lock your spine (and pinch your glutes at the top of the swing) as you fold your hips also protects your lower back. But remember: the swing is not a squat.
Don't forget to do some standing back bends between swing sets to help strengthen and protect your lower back. For me, that advice alone was worth the cost of ETK.
PM and ROP
http://kbforum.dragondoor.com/kettlebells-strength-conditioning-forum/132834-pm-question-azmark-bill1156-others.html
http://kbforum.dragondoor.com/kettlebells-strength-conditioning-forum/132828-progressing-pm.html
Stabilizing core
Think of core muscles as a cylinder which when tightened, compresses and supports the spine.
How to stabilize:
Abdominals - contract as if being punched; shorten distance between rib cage and pelvis
Diaphragm - take a quick inhalation thru nose to below your navel
Spinal muscles - arch back slightly
Pelvic floor - close butt and stop peeing
Glutes - tighten like squeezing a coin in your cheeks
Exhale forcefully thru mouth with a hiss
If you have 20 minutes to workout: do Program Minimum, outlined in Enter the Kettlebell:
Turkish Getups- Aternating hands each rep, perform as many reps a possible in eight minutes. Rest a couple of minutes then do swings at a pace of :30 work and :30 rest for 10 rounds.
Com. Lego, KBs are very effective at building muscle if you take advantage of their most unique features: high metabolic cost which will 'tear' the muscles with free radicals and fast eccentrics which, according to many recent studies, are the best way to build muscle.
I explain how to do that in 'Return of the Kettlebell' due in a month or so. -- Pavel
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